I have felt that self-hatred, too. That I am so ugly inside that there is no way anyone would want to be near me if they knew about it. I don’t feel it as much anymore. I’m glad that you were able to confront your own feelings in this regard. Take care of yourself.
Brother I’m so sorry for your loss. I can’t imagine the pain you went through that this happened 2 times! But I understand why the guilt… When the people we love end up hurting, we can’t help but to feel the guilt because yeah, we thought it was our job to protect them. And then we failed. And then we’d carry this pain for so long. It makes sense!
Because our thoughts said “you should’ve protected them. You should’ve done something. You ignored the red flags. You didn’t do enough. You should’ve done more. You could’ve done more but you didn’t. It’s your fault! You’re not a good dad/husband/brother/son/wife/mom/sister/daughter etc”And then we’d play this on repeat. And this is how we suffer. By listening to our own negative self-talk.
My Pastor Johnny Chang (ex gang member) told me super BARS:
“When you think you’re thinking, you’re actually listening.
Intrusive thoughts are like: VISITS. But when we BELIEVE them, that’s when they move in.”
And that’s why he often reminds the people in his congregation:
“STOP TRUSTING YOUR THOUGHTS. Stop trusting what you think and feel (which always change) and start trusting the Word of God (that never changes), ABOVE what you think and feel”.
And GUILT, I find, is one tricky feeling. On the surface it shows how human we are. That we have this conscience and remorse. It’s not necessarily a bad thing. But underneath, is actually a feeling that’s much more insidious than we often realize. Especially in this particular predicament where we lost the ppl we love. Because underneath, we thought we had the power. We thought we had the control. That we could have prevented these bad things to happen. And then they happened anyways. Why?
Because control is an illusion. Because what is control? Control is a characteristic that only God can have. And we’re not God.
So I guess what I’m saying is: IF the guilt we feel is because we thought we could’ve done something, then that guilt feeling is a LIE. That we have been deceived by our own feelings, is what I’m saying. Again, because control is an illusion. And that’s why,,, we shouldn’t trust our thought and feelings. This guilt, we shouldn’t trust it!!
DISTRUST YOUR THOUGHTS is kinda a staple now in our church. It’s so simple but it’s so powerful!
And nobody will ever teach you this because the mantra of the world is to trust yourself, and to follow your feelings. But 9x out of 10, when we follow our thoughts/feelings, they’ll lead us to misery tho. To despair. To death. To unalive ourselves.
I dunno what ur bro was gonna say to you, but when you said you used to be close, I wonder if your bro actually wants to FREE you from this guilt. We may not always agree or like our family member, but they will never wish us harm.
Sometimes, they’d say super blunt things that we don’t like hearing, or don’t like how things are said, cuz we’re all sensitive and we have fragile ego, and we’re trusting our thoughts so much even though we’re often wrong too, BUT, sometimes they’re the only people who will tell us the truth that most strangers won’t.
Don’t ignore that bid of connection. I hope you and your brother can reconcile and get to know each other better beyond what your thoughts are telling you.
Cheering for you! Let us know if you ever have that talk w your bro!!!
Wow- what a powerful story! I felt it somatically myself reading your experience. I have noticed that when I experience a suppressed impulse somatically it is intense at the time and then my body releases the layer and moves to integration so the charge is reduced. Less triggering! yay! My mother took her life 36 years ago and I'm still peeling that onion. Although I was a teenager when she died, the younger parts of me spent quite a bit of time with her during her suicidal phases and still hold remnants of guilt in my system. I'm okay with this. Guilt for me is a check point to see if I am acting out of integrity. While I may "know" something I've done or not done is out of love or care, guilt tends to show up if those young parts of me fear my boundaries or choices won't be received that way. I don't want to squash it, however it no longer leads the show. And that is how I know those parts of me are healing.
I have heard the concept of grief being compared to an onion. I thought after five years maybe I had peeled the onion and could just move on to garlic salt. This message proved to me that I’m not there yet. Thank you, I guess.
The feelings that have bubbled up after a year and a half of counseling, as well as settling into a new home and a new routine where I am content and comfortable, but not necessarily calm inside. I want more, knowing knowing full well that what I really want I cannot have, so I don’t know what I want. I suppose to distill it into one word would be “confusion”. Damned everlasting confusion.
The last year or so, I've been putting more than a big toe in parts work. Someone once said—in reference to the underlying paradigm, one that shares a little turf with shadow work—when people fight, it's just one person's hurt parts fighting with another's hurt parts.
I would add the word "unfaced" to that assertion, predicated on the notion that we're all carrying around all these hurt parts and their protector counterparts, all of whom feel unseen and unappreciated.
Hey brother - I'm glad it landed with you. I have some friends doing parts work and they seem to be getting a lot of out it. I wish you luck brother and thank you for all the work you do in normalizing grief for men!
Thanks, Jason. I remain on the skeptical side of parts work, but I do feel a force pulling me closer to understanding. It's likely some kind of cognitive alignment, like we do with most of what we're biased to think. It's what we're in.
There seem to be more layers to the onion of grief than I wanted to imagine or know.
Like you, I will continue to move forward through the layers, whatever it takes. Although sometimes - many times - it seems unendurable.
Reading your description of self-hatred caused me to suspect that there's some of that buried, lurking inside my own self too. I've got some other layers to digest before I get to that one, though.
***
Do you wonder - in light of the commonness of death, in other words, many people have experienced loss - how it is that people keep functioning and the world keeps working? Because most people do not access the kinds of supports that you have or that I am. I'm well-supported with good therapy, bodywork, and church/pastor, and I still am stumbling and groping through day to day. Or is it that most deaths are more natural, due to "old age?" So people navigate those differently than those of us whose losses are sudden and traumatic?
Hi Amy - thanks so much for reading and commenting. I always try to remind myself that while the healing process can feel unendurable at times, it is endurable. Facing it won't kill me but the things I need to do to avoid it probably will.
It took me 16 years after my wife's death and 3 years after my daughter's to build my capacity to face the self-hatred. I think you'll know when it's the right time for you and only you can make that decision. I think the awareness that at some point you need face it is what's most important.
Your question is one I've thought about a lot. How does the world keep functioning when so many people are carrying unresolved loss? I think the honest answer is that it mostly doesn't. Not fully. There are an enormous number of people walking around as sadder, more diminished version of themselves and everyone, including them, has just accepted that as who they are now.
I also think you're onto something with the sudden and traumatic piece. There's a difference between a loss that's part of the natural cycle of life and one that hits you without warning. The latter doesn't just cause you to grieve. It radically alters how safe you perceive the world to be. It can suddenly seem like a much more dangerous place. That takes a different kind of work to repair. Too many people don't understand they need to do it, or don't believe they're worth it or are too afraid to face it.
Oh wow. I don't have words for how important this post is not only for you, but for everyone fortunate enough to read it.
The work of healing and peeling that damn onion is a real fucker, as you said. And...that work is what allows us to move forward and keep living after devastating losses. I have a loved one who won't do that work. He is a shell of his former self. The grief is coming out sideways as it always does when not processed.
I have chosen the path of healing which is terribly hard, not convenient, not easy for myself or those closest to me. I have lost some dear friends who were not able to stay on the journey of deep grief with me. I think I overstayed my welcome with them and became too much or too needy or something. That's its own special hell. But, I have to stay on the path of healing so I can live.
Thank you Jason for sharing your journey so openly. It gives me hope for mine.
What you said about your loved one and"the grief is coming out sideways" isexactly it. It doesn't disappear because we ignore it. It just finds another way out, and usually a worse one. I've learned this the hard way and it's an experience I never want to repeat again.
And as for the friends who couldn't stay with you on the journey... that's a loss that doesn't get talked about enough. You're already carrying something devastating and then you find out some people have a limit for how long they'll walk with you. And that limit can be shockingly low. That's its own kind of abandonment and I'm sorry you experienced it.
I'm glad this gave you some hope. You're giving me some too. That's the beauty in sharing our stories. ❤️
"It just finds another way out, and usually a worse one" - that's exactly right. In the case of my loved one it's coming out in anger and in distancing himself from family etc etc etc. It's so hard to watch.
With the friends who have not been able to continue the journey with me, they hung in there for a long time. My losses were compact, 3 within 7 months, 3 years ago. It was a giant shit show. My people were with me for all that came before and for the funerals, and so much of what came after, years for some. Then the nitty-gritty ugly grief work started and I think it became too much at that point. Those deeper layers of the onion are so much thicker than the outer layers. Working through those is a whole thing. Not everyone is wired for that. I have grace for this, what I put people through was a lot. And at the same time my heart is breaking over these devastating losses too.
Thank you for all your writing. There simply are not words for how meaningful your process has been to me. And...I'm so deeply sorry for your losses.
I have felt that self-hatred, too. That I am so ugly inside that there is no way anyone would want to be near me if they knew about it. I don’t feel it as much anymore. I’m glad that you were able to confront your own feelings in this regard. Take care of yourself.
Brother I’m so sorry for your loss. I can’t imagine the pain you went through that this happened 2 times! But I understand why the guilt… When the people we love end up hurting, we can’t help but to feel the guilt because yeah, we thought it was our job to protect them. And then we failed. And then we’d carry this pain for so long. It makes sense!
Because our thoughts said “you should’ve protected them. You should’ve done something. You ignored the red flags. You didn’t do enough. You should’ve done more. You could’ve done more but you didn’t. It’s your fault! You’re not a good dad/husband/brother/son/wife/mom/sister/daughter etc”And then we’d play this on repeat. And this is how we suffer. By listening to our own negative self-talk.
My Pastor Johnny Chang (ex gang member) told me super BARS:
“When you think you’re thinking, you’re actually listening.
Intrusive thoughts are like: VISITS. But when we BELIEVE them, that’s when they move in.”
And that’s why he often reminds the people in his congregation:
“STOP TRUSTING YOUR THOUGHTS. Stop trusting what you think and feel (which always change) and start trusting the Word of God (that never changes), ABOVE what you think and feel”.
And GUILT, I find, is one tricky feeling. On the surface it shows how human we are. That we have this conscience and remorse. It’s not necessarily a bad thing. But underneath, is actually a feeling that’s much more insidious than we often realize. Especially in this particular predicament where we lost the ppl we love. Because underneath, we thought we had the power. We thought we had the control. That we could have prevented these bad things to happen. And then they happened anyways. Why?
Because control is an illusion. Because what is control? Control is a characteristic that only God can have. And we’re not God.
So I guess what I’m saying is: IF the guilt we feel is because we thought we could’ve done something, then that guilt feeling is a LIE. That we have been deceived by our own feelings, is what I’m saying. Again, because control is an illusion. And that’s why,,, we shouldn’t trust our thought and feelings. This guilt, we shouldn’t trust it!!
DISTRUST YOUR THOUGHTS is kinda a staple now in our church. It’s so simple but it’s so powerful!
And nobody will ever teach you this because the mantra of the world is to trust yourself, and to follow your feelings. But 9x out of 10, when we follow our thoughts/feelings, they’ll lead us to misery tho. To despair. To death. To unalive ourselves.
I dunno what ur bro was gonna say to you, but when you said you used to be close, I wonder if your bro actually wants to FREE you from this guilt. We may not always agree or like our family member, but they will never wish us harm.
Sometimes, they’d say super blunt things that we don’t like hearing, or don’t like how things are said, cuz we’re all sensitive and we have fragile ego, and we’re trusting our thoughts so much even though we’re often wrong too, BUT, sometimes they’re the only people who will tell us the truth that most strangers won’t.
Don’t ignore that bid of connection. I hope you and your brother can reconcile and get to know each other better beyond what your thoughts are telling you.
Cheering for you! Let us know if you ever have that talk w your bro!!!
Wow- what a powerful story! I felt it somatically myself reading your experience. I have noticed that when I experience a suppressed impulse somatically it is intense at the time and then my body releases the layer and moves to integration so the charge is reduced. Less triggering! yay! My mother took her life 36 years ago and I'm still peeling that onion. Although I was a teenager when she died, the younger parts of me spent quite a bit of time with her during her suicidal phases and still hold remnants of guilt in my system. I'm okay with this. Guilt for me is a check point to see if I am acting out of integrity. While I may "know" something I've done or not done is out of love or care, guilt tends to show up if those young parts of me fear my boundaries or choices won't be received that way. I don't want to squash it, however it no longer leads the show. And that is how I know those parts of me are healing.
I have heard the concept of grief being compared to an onion. I thought after five years maybe I had peeled the onion and could just move on to garlic salt. This message proved to me that I’m not there yet. Thank you, I guess.
The feelings that have bubbled up after a year and a half of counseling, as well as settling into a new home and a new routine where I am content and comfortable, but not necessarily calm inside. I want more, knowing knowing full well that what I really want I cannot have, so I don’t know what I want. I suppose to distill it into one word would be “confusion”. Damned everlasting confusion.
Hi Olivia - it's definitely no fun to realize there's more work to be done.
What tells you that there's more work for you to do?
What a share, Jason. It sounds complex.
The last year or so, I've been putting more than a big toe in parts work. Someone once said—in reference to the underlying paradigm, one that shares a little turf with shadow work—when people fight, it's just one person's hurt parts fighting with another's hurt parts.
I would add the word "unfaced" to that assertion, predicated on the notion that we're all carrying around all these hurt parts and their protector counterparts, all of whom feel unseen and unappreciated.
Hey brother - I'm glad it landed with you. I have some friends doing parts work and they seem to be getting a lot of out it. I wish you luck brother and thank you for all the work you do in normalizing grief for men!
Thanks, Jason. I remain on the skeptical side of parts work, but I do feel a force pulling me closer to understanding. It's likely some kind of cognitive alignment, like we do with most of what we're biased to think. It's what we're in.
There seem to be more layers to the onion of grief than I wanted to imagine or know.
Like you, I will continue to move forward through the layers, whatever it takes. Although sometimes - many times - it seems unendurable.
Reading your description of self-hatred caused me to suspect that there's some of that buried, lurking inside my own self too. I've got some other layers to digest before I get to that one, though.
***
Do you wonder - in light of the commonness of death, in other words, many people have experienced loss - how it is that people keep functioning and the world keeps working? Because most people do not access the kinds of supports that you have or that I am. I'm well-supported with good therapy, bodywork, and church/pastor, and I still am stumbling and groping through day to day. Or is it that most deaths are more natural, due to "old age?" So people navigate those differently than those of us whose losses are sudden and traumatic?
Hi Amy - thanks so much for reading and commenting. I always try to remind myself that while the healing process can feel unendurable at times, it is endurable. Facing it won't kill me but the things I need to do to avoid it probably will.
It took me 16 years after my wife's death and 3 years after my daughter's to build my capacity to face the self-hatred. I think you'll know when it's the right time for you and only you can make that decision. I think the awareness that at some point you need face it is what's most important.
Your question is one I've thought about a lot. How does the world keep functioning when so many people are carrying unresolved loss? I think the honest answer is that it mostly doesn't. Not fully. There are an enormous number of people walking around as sadder, more diminished version of themselves and everyone, including them, has just accepted that as who they are now.
I also think you're onto something with the sudden and traumatic piece. There's a difference between a loss that's part of the natural cycle of life and one that hits you without warning. The latter doesn't just cause you to grieve. It radically alters how safe you perceive the world to be. It can suddenly seem like a much more dangerous place. That takes a different kind of work to repair. Too many people don't understand they need to do it, or don't believe they're worth it or are too afraid to face it.
I'm proud of you for doing the work, friend.
Oh wow. I don't have words for how important this post is not only for you, but for everyone fortunate enough to read it.
The work of healing and peeling that damn onion is a real fucker, as you said. And...that work is what allows us to move forward and keep living after devastating losses. I have a loved one who won't do that work. He is a shell of his former self. The grief is coming out sideways as it always does when not processed.
I have chosen the path of healing which is terribly hard, not convenient, not easy for myself or those closest to me. I have lost some dear friends who were not able to stay on the journey of deep grief with me. I think I overstayed my welcome with them and became too much or too needy or something. That's its own special hell. But, I have to stay on the path of healing so I can live.
Thank you Jason for sharing your journey so openly. It gives me hope for mine.
Thank you for this, Carol.
What you said about your loved one and"the grief is coming out sideways" isexactly it. It doesn't disappear because we ignore it. It just finds another way out, and usually a worse one. I've learned this the hard way and it's an experience I never want to repeat again.
And as for the friends who couldn't stay with you on the journey... that's a loss that doesn't get talked about enough. You're already carrying something devastating and then you find out some people have a limit for how long they'll walk with you. And that limit can be shockingly low. That's its own kind of abandonment and I'm sorry you experienced it.
I'm glad this gave you some hope. You're giving me some too. That's the beauty in sharing our stories. ❤️
"It just finds another way out, and usually a worse one" - that's exactly right. In the case of my loved one it's coming out in anger and in distancing himself from family etc etc etc. It's so hard to watch.
With the friends who have not been able to continue the journey with me, they hung in there for a long time. My losses were compact, 3 within 7 months, 3 years ago. It was a giant shit show. My people were with me for all that came before and for the funerals, and so much of what came after, years for some. Then the nitty-gritty ugly grief work started and I think it became too much at that point. Those deeper layers of the onion are so much thicker than the outer layers. Working through those is a whole thing. Not everyone is wired for that. I have grace for this, what I put people through was a lot. And at the same time my heart is breaking over these devastating losses too.
Thank you for all your writing. There simply are not words for how meaningful your process has been to me. And...I'm so deeply sorry for your losses.